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ETHANOL: Study finds E15 damages engines, roiling debate over EPA approval

E&E News -- Two popular gasoline engines in recent-model cars showed mechanical damage from fuel blend of unleaded gasoline and 15 percent ethanol, according to a study by a nonprofit research group backed by the petroleum and auto industries.

The Coordinating Research Council study of E15 arrives in the wake of U.S. EPA's approval of the fuel blend. Preliminary results from the study were circulated after EPA announced the first registrations of E15 on Monday.

"They're in a rush to get E15 into the market, and we just think that's a premature action from the agency," said Patrick Kelly, a senior policy adviser at the American Petroleum Institute, which worked with the council on the study.

Over the past year and a half, EPA has moved to allow E15 in motor vehicles, granting partial waivers for the

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Submitted Apr 06, 2012 By: angel4me

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sparky808 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:3,008 Points:599,685 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 5:17:57 PM Ignore sparky808 Report Abuse No secret.
stephen2155 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,024 Points:658,780 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 7:17:43 AM Ignore stephen2155 Report Abuse Really
NedW Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:5,620 Points:1,143,220 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 3:10:25 AM Ignore NedW Report Abuse This idea aint dead, yet?
NOTSOGRN Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,059 Points:1,512,200 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:50:33 AM Ignore NOTSOGRN Report Abuse . . Nip this in the bud...
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,857 Points:1,613,225 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:36:27 AM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse “‘. . . incomplete studies being put forth by ethanol's opponents who only want to continue our dangerous addiction to foreign oil,’ Buis said.” Since adding ethanol to gasoline reduces fuel efficiency and MPG, using such blends causes more petroleum to be consumed, not less, thus adding to our addiction to oil, whether foreign or domestic. Ethanol has always been a bad idea; E15 just makes it worse.
kd5kpd Champion Author Texas Posts:3,742 Points:1,417,700 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:36:24 AM Ignore kd5kpd Report Abuse Now much more proof do they need that ethanol is not good for gas engines? The problem is that the EPA doesnt care about damages it causes!!
Godozo All-Star Author Gary Posts:671 Points:559,440 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:31:08 AM Ignore Godozo Report Abuse E15 being pushed on us? Doesn't surprise us. My theory on ethanol is that it's added to Gasoline to extend the amount of Gasoline the United States can sell, as we'd be under severe shortage if all the fuel out there was 100% gas. Now, with strange things happening at the pumps (one gas station was out of regular unleaded, another was selling Premium at Regular Unleaded Prices) I'm wondering whether we're getting to the point where we'll need to extend our gasoline even further...hence the arising of E15. So...now, instead of 10 barrels of gas plus one barrel of ethanol giving us 11 barrels of gasohol, we now have 10 barrels of gas plus one 1/2 barrels of ethanol to give us 11.5 barrels of gasohol. Our fuel supplies are extended that much further, but at what cost to our older cars (ever drive behind a car using bad gasohol? It stinks, and in an ugly way)?
eric2theem Sophomore Author Riverside Posts:105 Points:30,155 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:28:05 AM Ignore eric2theem Report Abuse i think its funny they do speak about what it was exactly that failed but what problems have people had with E10
Ron77095 Champion Author Houston Posts:3,065 Points:603,650 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:27:15 AM Ignore Ron77095 Report Abuse Duh!!!
GAS1251 Champion Author Texas Posts:5,153 Points:1,627,205 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:25:22 AM Ignore GAS1251 Report Abuse Having enough trouble with E10
themaninthehat Champion Author New Orleans Posts:1,824 Points:472,265 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:22:43 AM Ignore themaninthehat Report Abuse No! King Korn is a movie and real corn should be food on the cob at a summer BBQ.
CiVX Champion Author Oakland Posts:7,055 Points:1,359,610 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:22:16 AM Ignore CiVX Report Abuse It was funded by the petroleum and auto industry; who can we believe.
GRUMPY55 Champion Author California Posts:1,629 Points:423,500 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:21:36 AM Ignore GRUMPY55 Report Abuse ok
turbodog Champion Author Mississippi Posts:6,761 Points:1,363,415 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:21:26 AM Ignore turbodog Report Abuse This fuel will fail.
singlemom27 Champion Author Ventura Posts:3,113 Points:640,185 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:18:42 AM Ignore singlemom27 Report Abuse Get rid of ethanol mandates! They have caused nothing but trouble.
SBlouch Champion Author San Antonio Posts:8,735 Points:1,860,240 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:16:18 AM Ignore SBlouch Report Abuse But this EPA wants the E15 and Obama will do nothing to stop it. Wonder what EPA would do if they started getting sewed my people who have damaged auto's. Oops, I forgot you can't sew the federal government.
bobdec Champion Author Miami Posts:8,969 Points:1,770,795 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:14:09 AM Ignore bobdec Report Abuse So does reg. ethanol, just scrap them
bba Rookie Author Cleveland Posts:87 Points:2,350,965 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:13:03 AM Ignore bba Report Abuse I am aware of some "flex-fuel" cars being able to run on E15 with reduced gas mileage...but not all cars. My 2009 Mazda 6 owners manual says using anything over 10% ethanol may damage the engine and WILL void the warranty. What's the EPA going to do when the car mfgs won't support 15%? How about pure 100% gas!
01DuraMAX Champion Author Tacoma Posts:3,484 Points:717,945 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:11:24 AM Ignore 01DuraMAX Report Abuse Get rid of the EPA
probedude2 Champion Author Akron Posts:12,553 Points:2,380,205 Joined:Jun 2003	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:11:12 AM Ignore probedude2 Report Abuse I wonder which engines were used here
Tundralimited2009 Champion Author Dallas Posts:38,812 Points:1,447,425 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:09:40 AM Ignore Tundralimited2009 Report Abuse Interesting
tessnlu Champion Author Missouri Posts:24,264 Points:1,107,240 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:09:31 AM Ignore tessnlu Report Abuse How can you stop these money hungry, greedy, & corrupt politicians? You vote them out and the next batch will be just the same. It never changes!! The Bible says "not to put your trust in earthling man". Psalms 146:3
OilerFan Champion Author Tulsa Posts:14,050 Points:2,447,800 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:05:30 AM Ignore OilerFan Report Abuse How new a study was this? Because it's been known for years that ethanol harms most engines. It would stand to reason that E15 would.
TBONE3 Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:8,751 Points:1,977,625 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:05:01 AM Ignore TBONE3 Report Abuse Forget Ethanol in vehicles completely. Serve it to the EPA commissioners in their cocktails instead!
LegoVasavouchi Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:1,659 Points:114,390 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:03:01 AM Ignore LegoVasavouchi Report Abuse Fascinating.
TXGasPriceSpy Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:7,815 Points:1,473,250 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:02:32 AM Ignore TXGasPriceSpy Report Abuse I'm not really surprised, are you???
Double_Golden Champion Author San Francisco Posts:2,565 Points:606,360 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:02:21 AM Ignore Double_Golden Report Abuse just stop produce Ethanol at all, problem solved
dave1745 Champion Author Gary Posts:1,262 Points:739,000 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:02:11 AM Ignore dave1745 Report Abuse It's not good for your car and it also is causing your food prices to go up
mgune9 All-Star Author Dallas Posts:914 Points:200,395 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 1:00:33 AM Ignore mgune9 Report Abuse do not keep expanding the blends of ethanol gas
BarryAClarke Veteran Author Indiana Posts:361 Points:53,270 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:57:14 AM Ignore BarryAClarke Report Abuse Not only bad for cars, but will drive the price of corn even higher. It already has gone from $2 to almost $8 per bushel. With E15, it will creat even a larger shortage. Look at any food product you buy such as chicken, eggs, milk, meat. All of these uses corn for feed. As an example, four years ago a one pound ribeye was $4.59 and today it is $8.95. Thank you President Obama along with your advisors................
must87searcher Champion Author Maryland Posts:8,985 Points:1,780,635 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:57:13 AM Ignore must87searcher Report Abuse Ethanol is not a recommended tool. It just provides more costs to buyers, and this is a time when that is bad news, except to the ones providing the costs. It is all a waste of time and money!!! Ethanol, being around for so long, is starting to look like some financial trick pulled by the EPA and the farmers. If so, it is probably a why to make extra money for themselves!!!
yakstar Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,420 Points:480,520 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:55:10 AM Ignore yakstar Report Abuse what can one do?
MusicalMan7 All-Star Author Ohio Posts:597 Points:93,330 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:53:12 AM Ignore MusicalMan7 Report Abuse Ethanol-free gas is pretty hard to find here. Saw it at a lot of mostly independent stations in Oklahoma, and knew a couple people who swore they got about 2-3 MPG more with 'real' gasoline than with the ethanol-laced product. Also once saw a sign at a mini-mart/restaurant/gas station which read: FRESH WATERMELONS $3.49 ABSOLUTELY NO ETHANOL Well, I'd hope not - not in MY watermelon!
Cuzilla Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:12,196 Points:2,349,505 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:52:54 AM Ignore Cuzilla Report Abuse Good! Maybe you'll buy an electric golf cart or a bicycle when your E15 consuming car rolls over and dies!
GigHarborHound Champion Author Tacoma Posts:2,537 Points:488,490 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:52:39 AM Ignore GigHarborHound Report Abuse NO ETHANOL!!!!
southrob Champion Author Tucson Posts:3,600 Points:688,175 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:49:24 AM Ignore southrob Report Abuse ethanol bad for cars
BobD2009 Champion Author Long Island Posts:6,994 Points:1,240,760 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:49:00 AM Ignore BobD2009 Report Abuse Even E-10 stinks, abolish ethanol.
Grumpy0521 Champion Author Ontario Posts:2,084 Points:752,485 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:47:57 AM Ignore Grumpy0521 Report Abuse My vehicles seem to run fine with it.
jkpsr Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,084 Points:1,102,880 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:46:37 AM Ignore jkpsr Report Abuse E15 should be banned! It damages both engines and mileage.
Lou08 Champion Author California Posts:1,084 Points:252,410 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:44:43 AM Ignore Lou08 Report Abuse TAKE 1 MINUTE~E-MAIL PRES.OBAMA ADIN. NO MORE E15 IN OUR VEHICLES!!! ( 2012 ALL OUT OF WASHINGTON D.C.!!) ! THIS A SAFE LINK.
Beaveronparade Champion Author Hartford Posts:2,105 Points:635,825 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:42:18 AM Ignore Beaveronparade Report Abuse I'd love to start using the Ethanol free gas,we just don't have it around here. [Edited by: Beaveronparade at 4/7/2012 12:44:06 AM EST]
ShadowACE Champion Author Boston Posts:9,023 Points:2,150,550 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:41:29 AM Ignore ShadowACE Report Abuse cicio2000 said: "Shocking - a study that was bought and paid for by the oil industry says that ethanol is bad for engines. No conflict of interest there!" No more than in the studies funded by the folks who are getting rich on ethanol that say it does not damage any engines. I've spent way too much money repairing both large and small engines over the past several years. Small engines and any older engines are far more vulnerable than most newer car/truck engines. I've bought two lawn mowers and three trimmers that lasted one season or less. In every one of them the repair shop has said that it either can't be repaired or that it would cost more to repair it than it cost to buy it.
10k Champion Author North Carolina Posts:21,259 Points:2,254,995 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:41:05 AM Ignore 10k Report Abuse maybe we can drain the moonshine out of the storage tanks before it's ruined with gas, drink what we can, and sell the rest.. wonder how many indiana and iowa corn farmers turned into overnight millioniares because of the epa's stupidity.. time to disband the epa anyway..
HKL All-Star Author Wilmington Posts:639 Points:359,430 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:39:46 AM Ignore HKL Report Abuse OK
LCSTEELERBOB Champion Author Gary Posts:2,961 Points:720,130 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:39:01 AM Ignore LCSTEELERBOB Report Abuse lets get to the point finaly about e15
Bezalel Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:12,103 Points:2,291,745 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:38:21 AM Ignore Bezalel Report Abuse The funding source has an ax to grind, though.
Beboper Champion Author Virginia Posts:8,732 Points:2,164,765 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:37:15 AM Ignore Beboper Report Abuse help save the corn
Zonk Champion Author Michigan Posts:6,486 Points:2,102,990 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:33:44 AM Ignore Zonk Report Abuse My position has for a long time been....no ethanol is good for auto engines.
tree_shakker Veteran Author Ontario Posts:427 Points:187,480 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:31:32 AM Ignore tree_shakker Report Abuse O no!
mrbee Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,759 Points:2,466,805 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 12:29:58 AM Ignore mrbee Report Abuse But the politicians have pushed for this to satisfy the corn lobby.